Mark V. Shaney's descendants #usenet #tuhs
A couple of days ago, LLM generated text was discussed on The Unix Heritage Society mailing list, and this exchange caught my eye:
an LLM is pretty much just a much-fancier and better-automated descendant of Mark V Shaney: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_V._Shaney
I am glad someone has finally pointed that out.
I followed the Wikipedia link and learned that "Mark V. Shaney" was the name used to post markov chain generated usenet articles, made at Bell Labs back in the 1980's.
I wasn't on usenet in 1984, but I do have an archive, so let me look up the Mark V. Shaney articles I can find:
| Message-ID | Date | Newsgroup | Subject |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2980@alice.UUCP | 1984-09-12 | net.singles | Change of topic? |
| 2990@alice.UUCP | 1984-09-18 | net.singles | RE: Re: RE: Re: External Appearances |
| 2991@alice.UUCP | 1984-09-19 | net.singles | Re: IBM software |
| 2992@alice.UUCP | 1984-09-20 | net.singles | Re: data processing |
| 2998@alice.UUCP | 1984-09-22 | net.singles | Don't call me a machine!!! |
| 3010@alice.UUCP | 1984-09-27 | net.singles | Re: sensitivity |
| 3014@alice.UUCP | 1984-09-29 | net.singles | Re: tease |
| 3022@alice.UUCP | 1984-10-02 | net.singles | Re: Money for your musings |
| 3025@alice.UUCP | 1984-10-04 | net.singles | Re: censorship |
| 3031@alice.UUCP | 1984-10-06 | net.singles | Re: censorship |
| 3037@alice.UUCP | 1984-10-12 | net.singles | Subject: Re: What is sensitivity good for anyway? |
| 3043@alice.UUCP | 1984-10-15 | net.singles | I'm a hugger, I'm a tactile programmer |
| 3044@alice.UUCP | 1984-10-16 | net.singles | Subject: Do not meddle in the mouth. |
| 3048@alice.UUCP | 1984-10-18 | net.singles | Subject: Re: mod.singles is now activated |
| 3050@alice.UUCP | 1984-10-19 | net.singles | Re: Not Way-Out But Lovable Babbling Meaningless Drivel [ :-( ] |
| 3053@alice.UUCP | 1984-10-22 | net.singles | Re: Kate Hepburn on sex life of today's college students |
| 3058@alice.UUCP | 1984-10-24 | net.singles | Re: Te: Re: backlash to the feminist movement |
| 3059@alice.UUCP | 1984-10-25 | net.singles | Re: How to ask for a phone number |
| 3062@alice.UUCP | 1984-10-27 | net.singles | Re: Re: Advertising with bikini-bait |
| 3075@alice.UUCP | 1984-11-05 | net.singles | Re: Gorilla my dreams |
| 3079@alice.UUCP | 1984-11-06 | net.singles | the definitive party followup! |
| 3112@alice.UUCP | 1984-11-16 | net.singles | Party Politics (follow-up) |
| 3125@alice.UUCP | 1984-11-30 | net.singles | Re: parental approval of, umm, living arrangements |
| 3132@alice.UUCP | 1984-12-01 | net.singles | Re: unconditional love |
| 3133@alice.UUCP | 1984-12-01 | net.singles | Re: unconditional love |
| 3215@alice.UUCP | 1984-12-29 | net.singles | Re: Big Breasts: The Unresolved Trauma |
| 3216@alice.UUCP | 1984-12-29 | net.singles | Re: A Seasonal Note |
| 3862@alice.UUCP | 1985-06-16 | net.singles | Friendship before/after SOship |
| 3866@alice.UUCP | 1985-06-18 | net.singles | Re: Most Bitter Attack on A Good Man et al. |
| 3872@alice.UUCP | 1985-06-19 | net.singles | Re: Intelligence (mild flame) |
| 3889@alice.UUCP | 1985-06-23 | net.singles | Re: Most Bitter Attack on A Good Man |
| 3902@alice.UUCP | 1985-06-26 | net.singles | Most Bitter Attack on A Good Man |
| 3920@alice.UUCP | 1985-06-28 | net.med | Re: Hayfever and Raw Honey |
| 3952@alice.UUCP | 1985-07-02 | net.singles | Re: The Good Old Times |
| 4107@alice.UUCP | 1985-08-04 | net.mail | Re: Mail routing -- problems showing up |
The Wikipedia entry has this information, under Examples:
Other quotations from Mark's Usenet posts are:[3]
- "I spent an interesting evening recently with a grain of salt." (Alternatively reported as "While at a conference a few weeks back, I spent an interesting evening with a grain of salt."[4][5])
- "I hope that there are sour apples in every bushel."[6][7] (see also sour grapes)
Interestingly we can solve the "alternatively reported" issue by going to the source, which is the very first article in the archive, 2980@alice.UUCP, where it says:
When I meet someone on a professional basis, I want them to shave their arms. While at a conference a few weeks back, I spent an interesting evening with a grain of salt. I wouldn't take them seriously! This brings me back to the brash people who dare others to do so or not. I love a good flame argument, probably more than anyone...
(my emphasis).
The second, sour apples quote from the Wikipedia entry is from the article 3062@alice.UUCP, where it is the closing line.
The (almost) full article shown in the Wikipedia Examples section is 3112@alice.UUCP; it looks like Wikipedia is missing the quip below the sign off, "Never attribute to malice what can be found in scientific american, under computer recreations."
The program behind Mark V. Shaney used a third order markov chain, so it makes statistics on triplets of words, and generates the next work by looking two words back. Reading the usenet articles, I want to revisit my little "politisnak" project, which is a basic markov chain looking at tuples of words, and expand it.
Sometimes it's fun to sit on top of a trove of old usenet articles!
Rob Pike added to the exchange on the TUHS mailing list, quoted at the beginning:
My name is Rob Pike and I approve this message.
:-)
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